From: Alexander
Georgiou <alexander.georgiou@all-souls.ox.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday
25 November 2025 09:44
To: Sandy
Steel
Cc: lucas.cloveralcolea@monash.edu;
James Lee; obligations
Subject: Re:
Fiduciaries, Remedies and the Supreme Court (Encore, Encore)
I
think that is an interesting point, and I hear echoes of the ‘direct loss’
analysis which ones sees (at common law) in e.g. Coles v Hetherton and
Burdis v Livsey at [101] of Mitchell: ‘Where a trustee or
fiduciary has misappropriate trust property… the benficiary suffers an immediate
loss of value’. Query though whether it makes all that much sense to speak
of this as a kind of ‘loss’. I am not sure I’m convinced (in either context).
That would elevate the date at which one asks the question ‘has a loss been
suffered?’ into a substantive part of what it means to suffer a loss, which
would I think be a non-standard use of language outside law.
Yours,
Alex
On
25 Nov 2025, at 09:13, Sandy Steel <sandy.steel@wadham.ox.ac.uk>
wrote:
On
the painting hypotheticals, wouldn’t the results be the same if the defendant
was not a trustee? I suspect so and therefore there is convergence between the
common law and equity here, albeit perhaps not a complete one.
If,
inspired by recent events at the Louvre, I head into the Tate and take home a
Turner, and there’s a fire at home which destroys the painting, presumably I’d
be liable in conversion for the loss
(assuming
that there would have been no fire at the Tate which would have destroyed the
painting anyway - although there are parts of Kuwait Airways which
might lead one to think this assumption is unnecessary)
Fowler
v Hollins LR
7 QB 616, 639: 'persons deal with the property in chattels or exercise acts of
ownership over them at their peril’
Perhaps
there’s more doubt when the fire is started by a deliberate malefactor who is
not me, someone acting for me, or someone I have a duty to control.
Same
rule in German law: §848 BGB: "A person who is obliged to return a thing
of which they have deprived another person by tort is also responsible for the
chance loss, for a chance impossibility of surrender arising for another reason
or for chance deterioration of the thing, unless such loss, other impossibility
of surrender or deterioration would have occurred even without the
deprivation.”
Quite
separately there is a general rule - not concerned with intervening causation,
but the prior question of whether a breach is a cause of a loss - roughly that
a person in breach of duty to C cannot rely upon their own hypothetical further breach
of duty to C to argue that C has suffered no counterfactual loss. That deals
with the hypothetical in which D argues that D would have later breached
rendering the shares worthless. The rationale of that rule is that C has a
right against D that D complies not only with the duty breached, but all of D’s
duties to C - so the counterfactual supposes that D did indeed comply with all
of D’s duties to C.
Best
Sandy